Careful what you project into reality…. “It's sure to piss off more than a few people” … I'd rather prefer to think it is sure to challenge, empower and enlighten many who read it.   “Piss off” has a negative connotation.

And it was a GREAT review… could have been a little more inclusive of the positive aspects of the intent of the movie.  The more we focus on what doesn't work…. well, the more likely we are to look at the way people “aren't right” from our spirally dynamic perch.

here's something that sitting in my head though… (straight brain spill here)… I'm all for hammers… albeit, I have a thing for fluffy, velvet hammers.   I do agree that we are all at different levels of spiritual development, many who resonate very closely together so they form collectives… but, those who seem to be further developed or “evolved” shouldn't be so quick to start knocking out the potential steps of progression for those who could use the “secret” as a very valuable step in their own spiritual progress… let's say someone sees The Secret and changes their perception from “outside superior entity controls my life” …. to a more self realizing perspective of “I have the power to create my own reality and mold my future, too” … said person could quite possibly then progress towards thinking for themself… a stronger self-realization and a clearer perspective of reality as a whole.

If it works towards spiritual development… an advance from one's current position… then why remove the step from the ladder?  That only makes the steps for those who are still at “lower levels” that much harder to advance.  Yes, let's challenge others to take bigger steps… to risk skipping a step… but if we remove it completely and they don't quite make the transition… chances are, they will fall even “lower” than where they had progressed to.

Hope that makes sense…  I just really see the “Yes, AND” in this movie… in BOTH directions … “lower” looking forward and “upper” looking back.

Interesting review… My first comment will be that is great that people are talking about these subjects, and anything that can spark a good conversation is good in my book.

Saying that, I have a few comments

1. Lack of balance on the review a problem I been seeing in many documentaries, reviews, TV shows, News, etc.  IS happening at all levels and is a very dangerous game, very polarizing and if you think it is only happening in politics think again.

2. Movies have to be review for what they are. At the end of the day is JUST a movie. Who ever takes the lessons (good or bad) at face value won’t learn the lesson. My personal advice is go out there try it and then let me know what you think. (That goes for any movie, any book and spiritual advice you get even if is coming from Jesus, Abraham or Mohamed)

3. Each person is different and each person is here to learn something different. Personally I did learn new stuff from both the secret and WTB. Do I think everything is 100% right? NO… I take the parts that I think might help me and the rest I keep it in the back burner but to pretend that I am completely right and I know everything will be stupid (even if I try something and doesn’t work doesn’t mean it can work or is false.)


4. I strongly agree with point number 2 that Jillian makes… The Shadow is you friend. Only looking to our negative traits we can learn and grow.


Finally I would like to conclude saying that when I first saw the film I had a few issues with it specially the part were one of the people basically kill god but then a few weeks ago I had the opportunity to meet 3 of the people in the secret one of them was Jack.  Is very interesting to listen to them and if you have the opportunity to share with them you will find that there ideas are bigger than the 3 basic concepts the secret represent.

I do find that the secret lacks in objectivity and the trailer is misleading and melodramatic but I also found positive lessons in the film.

HA ! Yea I have met more than one person that try to sell me spirituality at $1500 and some times even more…

One thing that I find in common in a lot of people that are in the “business of spirituality” is that they always thing they are the one that got it 100% right and what ever they say is the truth….

 Each time I hear some one telling me that they have the way and only way and everyone else is wrong … I run as fast as I can to the other side !!!

I think the best line I have heard in a long time was by John Healey he told me
“There are 6.5 billion people in the world there must be 6.5 billion ways to enlightenment”
I think he is right…

mmmm Your post just inspire me to write about how to catch a fake spiritual messenger !!!
maybe my next film will be about that HE HE … That will definitely piss a lot of people !

but spirituality (both authentic and the not-so authentic) is the new Megatrend!

so even with all its limitiations, The Secret is doing its job. we're all impermanent dancers in this neverending hyperdance.

~C

WOW…. I go shopping for the evening and look at all this beautiful correspondence!!! Love it all!!!  I really enjoyed ~C4's reponse…  AWESOME!!!

I can truly appreciate all of the perspectives being given here (and on Julian's blog too – I actually LOVE reading his blogs)… just had to get what was sitting in my head out… it's taken a while to process… your post just happened to be where it all decided to escape.  :)

I am just still blown away with all of the responses, ranging from indepth serious and all the way out to silly (Rod cracks me up!)…. gotta love this environment…. safe to express… safe to be.

Hey Everyone - thanks for the comments, and thanks to Brian for linking me here!

You have inspired me to write The Secret: Part Two.

See you over there!

~julian

OK, I just finished reading the three blogs on this subject. I think Millman really nailed this
one on the head.  I see Julian as kind of a defender of integral… a Vajra sword against
narcissism and the MGM, particularly in his critiques of New Agey-ness, cutting through
bullshit wherever it finds it.  I think Dan Millman is offering the “both/and” perspective Brian
likes to philosophize about.  Ironically, I'm of the “both/and” persuasion when it comes to
Julian's and Millman's perspectives.  They're both offering a very valuable critique here, and I find both to be very much needed, as the world grows into its next phase. 

Julian is offering Masculine compassion, defending the Tao, saying something like “We
don't need to include pathology in our spiritual practice.  It's limiting, and in fact, detrimental. So, let's cut the fucking unhealthy bullshit out.”  Dan and others, seem to be offering a more feminine compassion here, saying something like “No-one is 100% wrong 100% of the time, and there is some wisdom within The Secret.  Any intelligent person can sift through and find it while taking the rest with a grain of salt.”  So, that's a very brief summary of what I see here. 

But, like I said, I see all these perspectives as valuable.  And I want to make clear that I
think Julian's perspective is one that isn't heard enough.  It can only benefit us all to have the sword of Masculine Compassion shake us up a bit, seeking out and cutting our ties to
Narcissism. 

Will do.  Posted a side note here, too.

MsKaprikell.

I find it a little funny that you see The Secret as an empowering tool. For me it's precisely the reverse … or, rather, it just trades one authority for another. It still recruits science (an outside entity if there ever was one) in its favor. It still promotes the illusion that it's material things that we deserve, and material items that we should work toward. It still endorses an overwhelmingly cognitive (if lacking wholly in critical reasoning) approach to spirituality.

Spiritual development is so much more about going inwards, about sitting and being still and discovering these truths for oneself, not looking to some outside authority to confer them, or, for that matter, having this same outside authority support the idea that what we have and what we can get are important.

The reason I see The Secret as troubling is because of how it can contribute to divisiveness and a disturbing lack of compassion. If we avoid the eyes of a homeless person because he “hasn't been thinking positively” or chide a relative dying of cancer because they “haven't been visualizing” enough or brought it upon themselves because that's the “reality they were focusing on,” or if we shun our neighbor whose son just died in Iraq because of her “negative energy,” or if we ignore environmental and social justice issues because they've been “manifested” by those who are troubled by them, we risk contributing to an even more fractured world. And more than that, we're demonstrating that we don't really GET the deeper truth that The Secret brushes on … that that homeless person, and the dying relative, and the suffering mother, and those left homeless due to environmental damage, are ALL you … and thus can't possibly hope to have them “work.”

Because the truth is, we all are connected, but on more than just one level. We're interconnected spiritually, and we're interconnected materially as well; the car I chose to drive has an impact on the world around me, and the shoes I choose to buy are the product of someone else's labor, and the way I lead my life impacts the rest of the world. A spirituality that comes from inward awareness, from sitting and meditating and doing the necessary work, understands this; getting the message from outside in no way guarantees the understanding of social and environmental consciousness that's necessary to a better world.

But I digress. More later, hm? I'll look forward to this topic continuing. :)

just a quick clarification…. I do not see The Secret as an empowering tool…  I already did the things discussed in the movie… writing down dreams/intent (I call that journaling); visualizing (I have made two vision boards in Nancy's LifeCoach workshops); and positive thinking (optimistic should have been my middle name)… anywho…. In my opinion, The Secret is neither the “solve all” tool that some would have it to be, nor the “demise of evolution” that others say… it goes back to the personal responsibility of the Human using it … it is after all (as are all thought forms) a tool.  Use from it what works and makes you stronger… and know when to drop it and move on to the next stage of development…. progress.  Yes, people cling to theories and ideologies… what feels safe and comfortable, even if it is a rut a mile deep, they stay…. the only place I can change that is in my life (which I feel I have done very well in advancing and thinking for myself)… once the changes start resonating in my own environment, others will start “feeling” the effect of change that I am making in the world. 

I've taken a huge step in even throwing my thoughts out here to learn from the abundance of responses that have ensued.  THIS is a learning experience for me… but, by no means am I “trapped” into thinking that The Secret is where ALL answers are found.  I consider myself to be fairly intelligent and gracefully discerning.

Very powerful conversations that have expanded from these entries!!!  I love learning this way!

WOW this one is getting bigger by the minute !!!

If you wanted to create controversy you did HA HA

First just want to say BRAVO to Matthew, well done. Nice job !

Also wanted to add one thing. I

f you fail to see the importance of the roll that each person has in our personal grow as individuals, as a group, planet etc you are folling in the same mistake that extremist around the world are taking. One thing is to disagree and voice your opinion against an idea or a group another completely different thing is to say they are worthless piss of S*** or anything similar.

This is cumming from a person that dosn't practice or believe too much in the “new age” ideology, that has several an strong critics about the rout that religion is taking (even that I practice one of them and believe that is right for me)

I do believe in God and I do believe that there is a bigger picture than what we see. At the same time I believe that we can create our own realities and we can shift our lives. I do believe that some things are “written” and are meant to be and we have free will and personal choice in others. BUT I will never believe that what is right for me is right for you and  I don't think any one at this point know exactly with 100% precision what is “real” and what is not.

From this discussion my biggest lesson is that we are hear to learn and grow and is soooo important specially in the position that we are taking and the leadership role we are assuming not to diminish or discard anything from any one. Not even if we think is absurd.

NOTE: VOICING YOUR OPINION IS GREAT AND YOU MUST DO IT. But when you do it make sure is coming from a good space.

I know is cheesy but I am still going to say it… Anger is the path to the dark side :)
Only the dark side deals in absolutes.

Thanks
O.

PS for all the bloggers: Just think for a minute when you were writing your post in which state you were? harmony ? peace? anger? love? jealousy?

I think the motivation or intention behind the work is what must carry the day. If one sees one thing, invariably someone will see another. The discussion of art, life, music and beauty are all subjective to our own experience.

 What I appreciate in these discussions is the discernment each brings to the table that we are all eating from. I really enjoyed Juilan’s recipe,

 ”start with a nice crust made of the scientific method infused with genuine wonder a la Darwin, add a firm layer of Joseph Campbell’s voluminous observations on myth, society and mysticism, pour in your Freudian, Jungian, humanistic and transpersonal theory bits for texture,

next, add the observations of the existentialists, Marxists and post-modernists, now add the sugar of religion and spirituality, (we recommend using the cultural context sieve here to remove any unnecessary baggage) -  go easy here and make sure it's well blended with the critical thinking and psychological awareness, it should make a nice substantive slightly savory paste, also - be on the lookout for any lumpy bits that are more sweet than substantial - don't hesitate to discard any ingredients that won't blend! - they are probably either not fresh or of substandard quality…(some sugar manufacturers in particular are less than ethical about what they put in the bag….)

consult your integral cookbook periodically on this and take time to meditate on each ingredient if you are not sure….put in the oven of practical application for, oh about 90 years - serve warm with the cream of pragmatic and honest humility and the enigmatic tea that makes the ineffable mystery a central component of the overall taste experience…”

I just love that Julian. Props :-)

 Well we all experience the blending process of flavors through your own discerning and critical thinking on what we perceive in images. Which is why I like one of the proposed Characteristics Found in Thomas J. Hurley's;  “Changing Images 2000 Integral Approaches to Re-Imagining and Re-Making Ourselves and the World.”

 A response to the 1974 Stanford Research Institute study and seminal work entitled “Societal Consequences of Changing Images of Man” led by Oliver Markley with Willis Harman, Joseph Campbell and others that visualized a new consciousness paradigm for society.

 In it on page 22 he highlights “The creative, constructive powers of human consciousness and the connections between mind and the physical world” which are to;

 Provide an understanding of how we construct the world we experience and how, by making those processes conscious, we can increase our capacity for choice and open up possibilities for experience and action that might previously have been unavailable to us.

 Foster an appreciation for the development and use of our multiple ways of knowing, being, doing.

 Value both “masculine” and “feminine” qualities and capacities, active and receptive modes of consciousness, agency and communion.

Emphasize our capacity for both adaptive and generative learning — for both responding effectively to what arises and initiating creative, purposive actions that bring forth a world expressive of our essential values and highest sense of possibility.

 I guess in the end, we might conclude the Secret did do some of that for some, and not for others. It's all about perspective and where we are in the spiral of life. As has been said, one may be at the zenith, another at the nadir, I just hope to meet you in the middle. :-)

DEO

What about the Law of Attraction on it's own outside The Secret.

Do thoughts create things?  Does like attract like…Is this a fallacious concept?

I don't think The Secret is about positive thinking as much as it is about the notion that like attracts like and thoughts create.  The visuals, side bars, and marketing are without question appealing to and demanding attention from the narcissistic elements within us and the culture.  It was created by the beast it serves but is it at all possible that there is a  trans-rational truth in the Law of Attraction?

I'm just not convinced that I'm using fallacious means in my intended attraction of a like minded community that I sought for many years or the attraction of information I need to substantially raise my awareness and development.  Both of which I have thought about, envisioned, and most definitely “acted” upon at their arrival.

The vain gold trappings of The Secret surround a truth I have used consciously and not so with the romantic results of a pre-trans fallacy but more recently the results of a concrete knowing of mystical awe, a knowing beyond rational.  And I am doing it by focusing on Love and that is what has been awing me even when the Love produces immense pain and utter disappointment.  Love encompasses all and provides transcendence of all when you focus on it and investigate it.  The antithesis of the pain is available when you continue with Love.  Like attracts like.  Love attracts Love and Love is everything rational, pre-rational, trans-rational.  

I can't help but see that everyone of us comes from our own subjectivity filtered by the lens of our particular dogma (too strong of a word) whether it be Love One Another, Integral, Spiral, pathological, Light Worker, marketeer, EnlighteNext, and on…has any one got a lock on the accurate perspective or context?  What was pathological 400 years ago is Science today.  That's what an Integral map shows us, right?  What today is the fallacious notion that thoughts create things may very well create a “changed” world tomorrow. 

And it's not lost on me where I arise on the Integral Map.  It's a fascinating lens to gaze through.  But the lens I try to use most often is “Dare to look through your Eyes as GOD gazing upon GOD.”  That's what bubbled out of me when I began to attract and attempt to be like Love.  Pre-trans fallacy?  Nah.  It's the real deal ya'll.

Thank you all for the space to express.  I deeply respect you and your views (I mean that from a higher than pluralistic place) lol.  Namaste.

Anyone?

I wasn't talking about Julian's post. I actualy was comenitng on the rest of the blogs that now are floting around about that essay. Personaly I think Matthew nailed right in the head with his post. I tought it was so clear and precises that I took the liberty to narrate the aftermath (sorry for the confusion) …

Read Millmans' blog, Julian's posts, and most of the comments around this…and what interests me is the validity or not of The Secret.  What interests me is this - what is it about this topic that makes it so polarizing and juicy for all the people who are polarized by it and juiced by it?  What are the underlying attachments and aversions that are being poked at and triggered? 

One could say that The Secret, the blog posts, and the comments are all products of the entire “field”…that it's the climate of the entire field that gives rise to The Secret, the war in Iraq, and the election of George Bush…

I've seen a bunch of posts on how things are or are not, but no one really playing with taking responsibility for all of it within the field of their own consciousness. 

There are parts of me that recognize the sameness of everything (samadristi) and there are parts of my awareness that I can see that still live in hope and would love for “magical thinking” to actually produce results (and for whom The Secret would appeal)…and a whole lot of other parts as well. 

The Secret is out and available…that's not up to me at this point, and quite frankly I don't really give it that much thought (unless it comes up in conversation)…I  also don't give much thought (unless it comes up in conversation) to a lot what's going on in the world in general (except when I do).  What my attention keeps coming back to again and again is the focus I'm drawn to - shifting consciousness one being (or group) at a time, each one a pebble dropped into the pond creating new ripples of resonance that expand the awareness of the collective. 

How am I showing up for each moment, each interaction…am a “being the change” so-to-speak with each and every being that comes across my path….where do I sell out on “being the change” and why?  When do my own personal attachments and aversions preclude me from being the clearest expression of my highest ideals?  What do I do about it when I notice that it's gone that way?

Love,
Scott

Scott Schwenk asks

“What interests me is this - what is it about this topic that makes it so polarizing and juicy for all the people who are polarized by it and juiced by it? ”

Marcus Aurelius Says

                                      “The first rule is to keep an untroubled spirit.
                                           The second is to look things in the face,
                                           and know them for what they really are.”


Julian said

Sorry, the film really is a piece of shit. A well shot, edited, staged and post-production computer effect-ed piece of shit, but from a philosophical, psychological and spiritual standpoint - just appalling!

I think that statement alone makes it pretty clear why this topic got off to a rousing start. Right, wrong, or indifferent, those words are going to stir the pot every time. Which is why I am sure Brian says, “YES!! my intention is to stir this pot as much as I possibly can.” to help push the discussion along.  As I'm sure Julian's intentions were similar  in making such a comment. Those comments are what we call “Sticky thoughts,” and they certainly got your attention.

Although this has been a great discussion on the topic of the Secret being a stage appropriate.

“The Secret is not stage appropriate for anyone”

 as Julian states,

 i already assert that what i am criticizing in the movie is not a healthy stage perception along the way of growth, but a pathological regression that limits growth.

I believe Scott nailed it in his final statement ,

How am I showing up for each moment, each interaction…am a “being the change” so-to-speak with each and every being that comes across my path….where do I sell out on “being the change” and why?  When do my own personal attachments and aversions preclude me from being the clearest expression of my highest ideals?  What do I do about it when I notice that it's gone that way?

That's just it. What do we notice? What grabs our attention that keeps us from the moment to moment unfolding of our highest expression? It seems fairly clear to me, that what made this topic hit critical mass, was the way the cristicism was expressed. This led to the polarization we saw of the masculine and feminine representives that joined the fray.
Julian stated,

So yes, there are a lot of spiritual seekers out there to whom The Secret will make a lot of sense and seem really life affirming and empowering.

But it plainly is not.

It perpetuates delusion, which helps no-one.

It denies the multiple factors that influence our reality (psychological, sociological, economic, racial, historical, educational etc)  in favor of an over-emphasis on the power of intentional thought, which is immature and unrealistic.

Exactly.

It would have been the same, Laura.  I'm almost certain of that.  Julian has been a KW critic on multiple occasions.  But perhaps Julian should speak for himself here…

well perhaps i will matthew - thanks!

hey laura

 it sounds like you are saying my opinion of the movie is based on something other than my own thought processes, and if someone like ken wilber, said it was great (which i think is about as likely as dennis kucinich being the next president of america) i would change my tune….

Not so!

for my critical eye on wilber (whose work i admire greatly and am probably 90% in agreement with), see my discussions on the I-I pod on:

Ken Wilber, The Strange Case of Adi Da, and Ernest Becker

The Myth of the Given and Postmetaphysics

Enlightenment?

Spiritual Atheism

i hope this finds you well
~julian

really enjoying the dialog and debate from everyone! thanks so much….

my hope is that a beefed-up critical thinking meme gets infused into the spiritual community in general though discussion like this of pop spiritual phenomena!

for those of you interested - i responded to this dialog with The Secret Part Two: Wilber, Gebser ,and New Age Pathology

and then followed with a discussion of vipassana meditation and psychotherapy as a  suggestion of what stage-appropriate spiritual practice really looks like in The Secret: Part Three - An Antidote

be well
~julian

Hey, lively discussion. I guess I missed out since I was too busy reading and commenting on Julian's and Siona's blogs.

Scott:

I was thinking the same thing as I was reflecting and observing what was going on with the discussion.

How am I showing up for each moment, each interaction…am a “being the change” so-to-speak with each and every being that comes across my path….where do I sell out on “being the change” and why?  When do my own personal attachments and aversions preclude me from being the clearest expression of my highest ideals?  What do I do about it when I notice that it's gone that way?

Brian's statement:
“And, P.S. YES!! my intention is to stir this pot as much as I possibly can. For whatever reason, this movie triggers some fascinatingly strong opinions and is, in my opinion, the PERFECT cauldron for ALL of us to burn thru some misconceptions and play off of multiple perspectives to arrive at a (much) higher truth.”

I've certainly felt I've gained some realizations from this lively discussion.
 
In engaging we become more fully aware of who we are.

I guess that once something very serious in terms of health cuts your path, like being diagnosed with cancer, you all of a sudden become more attentive to all those around you. It happened to my father, it mught happen to anyone of us. And he was clinging to the one hope offered by the solaray coenzyme q10